00:05 Welcome to Tune Into Wellness Podcast. 
00:08 I am your host, Registered Nurse and Holistic Wellness Nurse Coach Jewelene Meacham. 
00:14 This podcast is designed to share inspiring stories, provide you with useful resources, and to empower you to live vibrantly. 
00:24 Following a diagnosis of metastatic breast cancer, I committed to supporting Wellness.
00:30 For those facing cancer and chronic illnesses. 
00:33 But we don't have to wait for a health crisis to find Wellness wherever you are in your journey. 
00:39 TuneIn each week for the best conversations from experts and industry leaders to inspire us to live our most vibrant life now.
01:02 Welcome to Tune Into Wellness. 
01:05 This month we have been focusing on nutrition and how the more we understand about our digestive system and what we put in our bodies, how it can help us or hurt us. 
01:18 We are going to continue that discussion today.
01:22 With Dustin Davis, Previously you have had episodes on the microbiome pre and probiotics and leaky gut and tonight we are going to learn about a plant based diet. 
01:36 So Dustin I I am so excited to talk with you and learn a little bit tonight around how we can eat healthier and and put better things into our bodies. 
01:49 Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what got you to this place?On your journey.
01:54 OK, sure. 
01:55 Thanks for having me. 
01:56 Uh, so I'm 46 years old. 
01:59 Let me see. 
02:00 So plant based nutrition, it's it's totally, it's still hard to do, it's still hard to follow. 
02:07 But my journey with it started several years ago when I was diagnosed with fatty liver disease.
02:15 And you know when you're at the doctor's office and they say, hey, you got a bad liver, you know, and you don't know anything about your liver or anything like that, you think you're going to die. 
02:25 So the nurse practitioner, she's like, don't worry about it. 
02:29A lot of people have it and she's right. 
02:32I think it's like one out of three or one out of four Americans have fatty liver.
02:36And fatty liver can be extremely dangerous. 
02:40Fatty liver is the number one cause for liver transplants, not the alcoholism. 
02:46And I remember talking to my doctor and I was like, how can I have a bad liver? I don't even drink.
02:52You know, I'm. 
02:53I mean, I'm 46. 
02:54I've never had a beer. 
02:55Yeah. 
02:55You know, And he was like, yeah, well, it doesn't matter if you don't treat your liver right. 
03:01You know, you don't have to make some changes. 
03:03So it just led me down the road of doing an enormous amount of research. 
03:08Because what's great about the liver is the liver will heal itself if you treat it right. 
03:14The liver will take care of itself. 
03:16You know you'll be fine if you if you catch it in time and you're willing to make some changes, which for most part, I've kept all those changes.
03:22Failed. 
03:22So which which is good. 
03:24Well, Dustin, I was excited to talk with you about this because a couple of months ago you and I had a conversation around some health issues. 
03:35And for me, with a history of metastatic cancer, I had lesions in my liver and went through my treatment and everything is still showing no evidence of disease. 
03:49However, I do have fatty liver.
03:52And so it was interesting when I went in for my routine scan, I was probably the only person that day that told the technician I was rooting for fatty liver because I knew my liver enzymes were up. 
04:09And that's how you can tell in your blood work. 
04:12So you're right, Dustin, when you are keeping regular checkups, they're going to check on those things. 
04:17And you know, there's lots of things that you can preemptively do. 
04:20But I I was rooting for fatty liver versus.
04:23You know cancer. 
04:24Absolutely. 
04:25So yeah, fatty liver is reversible, 100% is not. 
04:30It is not an easily reversible thing in the sense of we have to learn new habits, we have to learn new ways of thinking about food and what we are putting in our bodies. 
04:43When you and I talked a few months ago, I was so impressed with how much you had put together the vast amount of information.
04:53On converting to a plant based diet in like real life times, 44 years old father of two teacher leader, you know and oh I need to convert from eating McDonald's to eating a salad. 
05:09You know that's that's a big deal And I was really impressed with how much you had had retained and like put into practice and you certainly challenged me with a couple of things to incorporate into my diet which.
05:24I have done and.
05:26Cursed your name many times as I was drinking black coffee, but you know I love you for it. 
05:33Anyway, there you go. 
05:34So yeah, you know, please just share with us a little bit just to get started.
05:40On, you know, what was your, you know, I think your aha moment was the doctor saying, hey, you've got fatty liver. 
05:47Yeah. 
05:48But when you started researching, what was it that, like, resonated with you on I can do this. 
05:56Like I want to live. 
05:58I want to see my kids grow up And reading about this diet that that's the big thing because my kids are six and eight. 
06:04And at the time they were like, so they would be like four and six or something like that. 
06:08So I was like, you know, I kind of.
06:10Kind of need to be around showing the way, you know, make sure my daughter didn't bring home a turd when she's dating, you know, because there's enough turds out there. 
06:19I don't want her to bring some guy I don't like in my house, you know? So when I was just doing all my research with it, the first thing I learned is the number one enemy to your liver is sugar, primarily processed sugar. 
06:31If you look at how much sugar we put in our body a day, I think the average person does like 22 teaspoons of sugar a day, if you.
06:40Just take sugar out of your diet. 
06:42Your liver immediately starts to heal itself. 
06:45I mean, it will. 
06:46The healing process will start, but then there's food that you can add to your diet that will make the process go by faster, I should say, and help flush toxins out. 
06:57So let me jump in there, just in for just a minute. 
07:00So talking about the liver.
07:04Taking in sugar and sugar being such a big component that can make an impact. 
07:10If we think about what the liver is doing, it is a filter for our blood and as it filters, our blood.
07:19It wants to release the sugar, it wants to release what we don't need to convert to energy.
07:27But when we take in more than we need, so we're eating those.
07:33Bad for you. 
07:34Foods that are high in sugar and we're not exercising, so we don't need a lot of extra energy from sugar. 
07:43The liver says no problem, I'll just hold on to it until you need it next time.
07:49And what happens is we just take in more sugar and the liver starts building up with this reserve that is then really counteracting its ability to filter properly.
08:05So you know, I mean just the function of the liver, what we're putting in our body is hindering it from doing a required action for us to live so.
08:18So I just started learning everything I could and I started changing my diet.
08:23And then I found a course through Cornell University on plant based nutrition. 
08:30It's. 
08:30I actually got a scholarship and got it for free, but the course essentially costs around $1000. It lasts 3 months.
08:38And you get your certificate and plant based nutrition, learn to enormous amount of stuff. 
08:43One of the main things that I'm really good at that that I immediately gave up, immediately gave up because like I said, sugar is your number one enemy as I gave up all Cokes, Cokes, Pepsi, whatever, somebody soda, whatever, whatever you want to call it. 
08:57I gave all that up instantly because that is just like you're just pouring sugar straight into your body, you know. 
09:05Oh, and also anything with high fructose corn syrup.
09:08Man, I was straight up treat treating anything with high fructose corn syrup like it was just poison, you know?And so I just started taking all that stuff out. 
09:18And then I started drinking a lemon water.
09:21And actually, I would tell you that a lemon was my favorite fruit just because of all the nutrition that's in them. 
09:29Because you know, when you think citrus, you think vitamin C and you should think vitamin C, but there's just so much more to a lemon. 
09:35Like if you heat that lemon water up, there's so much more nutritional benefits. 
09:40So when I was going through that journey, it was in education we had was saying is you never missed a teachable moment. 
09:45Try to implement that with my lifestyles, like if I'm going to eat something, if I'm going to drink something, don't miss a moment.
09:52To make it work, it's having a positive impact on my body. 
09:55It's just like the black coffee thing. 
09:57I literally would just drink black coffee and lemon water all the time. 
10:01So tell us why black coffee is important. 
10:04Tell us pitch this one to the world. 
10:08You pitched it to me and I bought it.
10:12I researched that it has been shown to reduce the chances of getting liver cancer by 10%. OK And you know what? That's 10% I'll take every time. 
10:24I'll take it. 
10:24When you're going down that journey you get, you get a mindset of just determination that if something goes wrong, it's not going to be through a lack of effort. 
10:32You know you're going to do what you have to do to be as healthy as possible, you know. 
10:38So I learned plant based nutrition courses and everything.
10:43Just about reversing everything through nutrition. 
10:47So specifically with fatty liver, like some foods that are great for your liver, like avocados are tremendous for your liver. 
10:55Onions, garlic, any kind of greens are going to be great for your liver. 
10:59Not only that, but you're great for your heart too. 
11:01The liver, the bitter the food is, the better it reacts with the liver, the better it is for cleaning your liver out. 
11:09So like parsley, I can't stand parsley. 
11:11I think parsley about gross.
11:14But when you're told and you're doing this research of how wonderful it is, well.
11:21Be able to try. 
11:22And you know you eat it and you go, man, that junk tasted awful. 
11:26But you do it because you want, you want to be healthy, right? We need to switch the thinking in our head from I'm eating because I want pleasure from it. 
11:37So I'm eating because it's good for me and I could get pleasure from it, right. 
11:43So I can like Whole Foods. 
11:46One thing that I I really want to hone in on that you just said there was you were going to the grocery store.
11:53And you were getting these Whole Foods, you are buying parsley, you are buying grains, you are buying avocado, you're buying garlic. 
12:00You are not going necessarily to a store to get a supplement. 
12:06We want to go to Whole Foods first when we can and supplements when we can't. 
12:12You know you want to get as clean of a product as possible and as pure of a product as possible. 
12:19So you know that's a that's a big key thing and hearing you say that.
12:23Where your mind didn't immediately go to, I don't like parsley. 
12:27Is there a pill for it? There are a number of options that you have when you are standing in the aisle in whatever store you're going into. 
12:37And the biggest thing is you need to know the source. 
12:41You know you need to know the source. 
12:43Supplements are not regulated by the FDA, so therefore they are not going under the scrutiny that.
12:54Our medications are foods are so you can have a lot of pushing of a supplement that if you don't know what you're doing there, you are just paying a lot of money to have it go through your body and you are going to urinate your money right out. 
13:15It goes right through you because you do need to have, oftentimes when you take supplements, A supplement and a counterpart to make it work.
13:25Together or you are only going to be able to absorb X amount in a period of time. 
13:30So high dose supplements are oftentimes a waste of money. 
13:36Whole Foods on the other hand are wonderful for our bodies and you know, if you're going to spend your money, spend it there. 
13:45So yeah, absolutely. 
13:46So like when I go to the grocery store and I'm in the produce section and whether it's Publix, Kroger, Ingles.
13:55Or if I'm able to find the Whole Foods or Harry's or whatever, I when I look at the produce section, I mean, first of all, it's just beautiful because of all the colors, right? I mean, the colors are just magnificent. 
14:06You get that bright, vibrant red and purple, you know, you get those beautiful yellows and you know, you see that rich green color and everything. 
14:17It's just, it's just beautiful. 
14:18It's like a this rainbow of food, you know, And we eat with our eyes and that's right. 
14:24So. 
14:24And I remember.
14:25I remember I was at Kroger and I was like, I was like, this is kind of like God's pharmacy, you know, because obviously back in biblical times, they weren't taking penicillin. 
14:34So I mean, what's the saying goes, let food be thy medicine. 
14:38What you want to do is when when you're shopping for food, you know, you're getting your greens because you want to get those greens, those are so important for your liver. 
14:48If fatty liver is your thing, the number one food you need to have in your body are greens, and you want to have greens every single.
14:56Today if you can have more than once, have more than once, do spinach at lunch, kill for dinner or something like that and just switch it up. 
15:03But you got to put those greens in your body and smoothly. 
15:06A great way to get greens in your body. 
15:07Great way, especially like like Hale Hale will. 
15:13A good trick with kale is make kale chips.
15:17Sail chips are pretty good, OK. 
15:19And I mean you're going to cook some of the nutrition out of them because that's that's how that works, you know, But it's certainly a lot healthier than potato chips, absolutely. 
15:28And certainly healthier than Doritos. 
15:30And we all know Doritos are like the best. 
15:33So at least they are here. 
15:36So but you know make your smoothie hail in soup is pretty good. 
15:41I don't know if you've ever had hail in soup, but that's that's pretty good too. 
15:44So when you're making your plate of food like.
15:47If you're going down that road of plant based nutrition and you're really wanting to heal your body up, you want to have different colored foods, right? Because you want to have that red bell pepper, You want to have that avocado, you want to have that red onion or yellow onion. OK, so now we got some red, we got some purple, we got obviously we got greens. 
16:07You want to bring in these different colors, OK, Because they all offer something different. 
16:15And I heard doctor.
16:17Campbell, he's a guy, one of the guys that leads the the plant based nutrition thing with Cornell. 
16:22He says that nutrition should work together as a Symphony. 
16:26You know, to think of instruments coming together to perform a Symphony, OK?Nutrition is the same way. 
16:33So you have these vegetables that that do this, you have fruit that does this, you know it all comes together to perform for your body.
16:44With fruit juice, Fruit juice can be very misleading because anytime you go to the grocery store, you know fruit juice. 
16:51It's all marketing 100% vitamin C Excellent source of all this plethora of things.
16:59And all that may be true, but what they're not telling you is how much sugar is in it and what the sugar is doing. 
17:05It's just going straight to your liver and it's killing your liver. 
17:08And it doesn't matter, for example, juice, orange juice, grape juice, whatever. 
17:12It doesn't matter. 
17:13And that was something that was hard for me to hear at first because, I mean, that's part of the, the SAD diet, you know, the standard American diet is.
17:22Orange juice for breakfast, you know, as part of your breakfast but and you just don't think of it as being something bad because you know you're getting your vitamin C in and while you may be getting your vitamin C in your liver is going, dude, you're killing me. 
17:35And so and then someone will always ask me what about eating an orange or eating an apple? I was like, well, that that's different because when you drink it, there's no digestion time, you know, it just it gets digested. 
17:49Just like that, right? But when you eat it, when you eat.
17:52At apple, when you eat that orange it your body takes, it takes time to digest and process through your body. 
17:59So when it's done slowly like that, it doesn't damage your liver because it's doing what it's supposed to do well and when you think about it too. 
18:07So even when you see, I think juices that will say 100% fruit juice, we feel really confident. 
18:15You just squeezed an apple and put it in a jar, right? Or jug? No, it is processed.
18:22If you've ever juiced anything, you juice does not look like what you buy in the store. 
18:28No it does not. 
18:29It does not. 
18:30Cause I have I have a brevel juicer and let me tell you real apple juice is fantastic. 
18:38It tastes dynamite but it don't look anything like what you see in the store. OK, it don't look anything like it because like what I used to do is I would get granny Smith apples juice some and then I juice like half a lemon or something with it is incredibly tart.
18:53But my gosh, was it crisp and delicious but too much sugar. 
18:57So I had to stop doing. 
18:58That's like saying this is too good to not be drinking. 
19:01You know, you just got to be smart about what you're eating and putting in your body. 
19:04It's all a balance. 
19:06It really is, and it's learning that balance.
19:09You know we're we're talking about going to the grocery store and getting our, our fruits and vegetables and one of the things that I think is an additional challenge for folks as they're looking to convert to a healthier diet is the cost and then looking at organic versus non organic. 
19:32Now of course organic is going to be more pure, you're not going to have the pesticides you're not going to have.
19:40You're going to have more awareness of the purity of the product going into your body. 
19:46So that's always something to strive for. 
19:49But even if you don't go that route, you know, if that step is a little too much for you, just start getting those Whole Foods from the grocery store to begin with and converting that way. 
20:00And I love that, that Symphony of color. 
20:03So what I do, because the food can be expensive, is there's always something that is on sale. 
20:09There's always about 1:00.
20:10Get one free or something like that. 
20:12And that is the the approach I take with a lot of time now. 
20:15Like if it's something that I know I have to have, then I'll bite the bullet and I and I'll get it. 
20:19Like if I know I won't have the cados, then I'll get the avocados, you know, Because I mean, who doesn't? Who doesn't like to get guacamole salad, right? You know?You know that's another that's another thing to think about. 
20:31So you know for those of us in the general population, we're all struggling with trying to eat better. 
20:38There's always a different diet push out there, but there is such strong messaging and studies on the benefits of a plant based diet or a higher Whole Foods diet to increase our health across the board. 
20:55But one of the things that's a challenge.
20:58Is we we have become a society that doesn't like going to the grocery store. 
21:04So we're either ordering for someone else to pick something up for us and then we don't think that they will pick out our produce properly so we end up not buying as much or you know we're not going as frequently as we may need to to the grocery store to where we don't have spoilage. 
21:23You know that was one of the things for me is I would spend the money.
21:28With great intention of eating healthier. 
21:31And then all of a sudden I looked in that crisper and things were not crisp anymore. 
21:37So that happened. 
21:38Me too. 
21:39And it's happened more than once and it's quite irritating because you go, that's 20 bucks that I just wasted right there. 
21:45You know, because like you have the greatest of intention as you were saying why, why even bother? Why even bother? So here's what you do. 
21:53This is how you prevent all that might happen. 
21:55You plan amendment. 
21:57So the intention of making them.
21:58Thing has to be very deliberate and you have to follow through with it.
22:02If you do that, nothing is wasted. 
22:04Nothing whatsoever. 
22:06You know, I had to waste some money in order to learn that lesson.
22:11That's great. 
22:12You're exactly right. 
22:13So if we plan, we're intentional. 
22:15I love that word. 
22:16We have to intentionally be putting food into our bodies that we want to. 
22:23And we can intentionally do that by intentionally making a menu that intentionally gets us to the grocery store to buy the things that we need to buy. 
22:32And if we follow all of that, we've eaten it all.
22:36So you know, I've I've, as I've listened to you, I've taken a few notes here of just some some great takeaways around getting started. 
22:46Number one, you know reducing the sugar intake is paramount and a great way of doing that as just one.
22:56Relatively easy step is cutting out sodas and replacing it with lemon water. 
23:04Lemon water being not only a substitute for a bad option, but it's actually a very positive option for your body and if you can take it heated, even better for you. 
23:15Then when we talk about fatty liver, which as you said about one in three of us have. 
23:20So I think we all need to perk up our ears here, you know, but some great takeaways there, the black coffee.
23:27So I did a little bit of research and it was the recommended at minimum two or three cups and I was like cursing your name. 
23:35I really was like I was that I don't want to do it, but you know, maybe don't drink the whole pot of coffee, but definitely two or three cups if you can is a benefit to reduce your fatty liver having all of the greens that you could possibly eat. 
23:52Another great thing for fatty liver and.
23:57Avocados, onions, garlic and going to the Whole Foods versus the supplement, having something on hand like kale soup or the kale chips. 
24:06Things that are quick and easy for you to grab. 
24:10And then you know finally like going to the grocery store and purposefully getting that variety of foods but getting the volume that is going to correlate with your menu so that you don't have wasted items and.
24:28You know, if we commit to this process, it really isn't as costly as we think it is in our heads. 
24:36Because if you truly looked at your bank statement and just looked at how many door dash entries there are, just count that up for a minute. 
24:47I bet you you have spent more than you would on us fresh spinach, carrots, onions and garlic.
24:55And it's a lot cheaper than a liver transplant too. 
24:58You know, I think that's an excellent point. 
25:02We really that is that is not a place you want to be. 
25:06And it is quite unfortunate that as a nation we are so driven to convenience foods and processed foods because of our lifestyle of hurry, hurry, run, run, non intentional eating that we have become a nation.
25:26Where a #1 cause of death is what we're putting in our bodies to feed it. 
25:34We are basically putting diesel in a unleaded tank, right? Like we've we've really shifted the shifted the focus there. 
25:45So you know, another thing that is a big take away is that if we truly have the intention of wanting to live healthier lives, live longer lives.
25:57Allow our bodies that were so magnificently made and intricately made to take care of us with very little effort on our part. 
26:10It's very little effort. 
26:12We don't do anything to breathe. 
26:15We don't do anything for our heart to be. 
26:18We don't do anything for our immune system to be working. 
26:22All of the circulatory system, all those systems have an innate knowledge of.
26:26What you're supposed to be doing within us, all we have to do is take care of this body that was created.
26:34And put healthy things in so that we can support it. 
26:39So if we're intentionally doing that, one of the things that you ultimately have to become aware of is that if we will quiet ourselves, our bodies will tell us what they need. 
26:54We will crave certain foods. 
26:56We will know that we need to add more fiber to our diet because of the way our bowels are moving.
27:05You know, we will know that we need to increase maybe an antioxidant because we are going into a season where we want immune boosters. 
27:15So you know, there's intention behind what we're doing and then realizing that there's a purpose behind it in being good stewards of of the bodies that we've been given. 
27:28And Justin, I will tell you, you and I, we've seen highs and lows and goods and bads for.
27:35Years and years. 
27:36And I certainly have spent many of my 55 years. 
27:41I think you threw your age out there earlier. 
27:43But you know that 55 years of not giving the right attention to my body that I needed to flippantly thinking of what I am eating or not eating or doing or not doing. 
27:56And one of the things that people will oftentimes question is, well, why did all of a sudden I start having these problems now?I haven't changed my diet, no, but you hit critical mass like you hit the spot where it said, Yep, can't keep doing this, and now I'm going to start not functioning properly. 
28:18And why do we have to wait to get to that point before we are taking note of some of these basic fundamental things of living a good life?Yeah. 
28:33And I'm. 
28:34I'm just glad it was delivered with me and not like, my heart. 
28:37Yeah, you know, because. 
28:40But, but I mean, here's the thing, realistically, if my liver was bad, then that probably wasn't the only thing that was bad in my body, you know what I'm saying? I mean, that's just kind of like a warning sign. 
28:51It was your warning sign. 
28:53And luckily, Dustin, you heard the call, you stepped up and you made some changes that have positively impacted.
29:03Your life, your longevity and to be able to be there to make sure sweet scarlet brings only nice boys home when she gets old enough. 
29:14That's right, we ain't allowing turds in. 
29:15And that Dusty is the gentleman that you know he will grow up to be like his daddy. 
29:21So I am so thankful that you shared some time with me tonight and with with all of us on tune into Wellness and I am sure that we will have you back.
29:34We will put some resources on the links so that you can have some references for some takeaways. 
29:43I think one of the ones that I had thought about Dustin was Forks Over Knives is a great resource. 
29:50Yeah, that's an excellent documentary. 
29:53So we'll put some links for folks that want to dive a little deeper into this and no doubt we will have you back at some point, Dustin, to share more of your journey.
30:04Thank you. 
30:05Thank you so much. 
30:07I had a blast. 
30:08Thank you so much for having me. 
30:09This is fun. 
30:10It was fun. 
30:11Thanks. 
30:11
Bye, bye.